Office 2007 and Excel 2007

I did promise myself I would not use this blog to moan about Office 2007. But Jon Peltier brought it up over on DDOE and I couldn’t resist. And really my only issue is the ribbon, or rather Microsofts deliberate (and unnecessary) decision not to provide a compatibility mode. In fact technically in using 2003, I am using 2007 in ‘compatibility mode’, according to Jensen Harris.

I just think they asked the wrong question and so the ribbon (which is little more than a fat clumsy toolbar after all, don’t let the new name mislead you) is not the right answer.

Their question seems to have been: is the ribbon better than menus and toolbars? and maybe it is, I neither know nor care, that question is soooo irrelevant.
What they should have asked (IMO) is : is the ribbon better than menus and toolbars for all those people who have been using menus and toolbars for years, and have menus and toolbars in almost every one of the other applications they use? probably not.

In the UK we drive on the left, most other places drive on the right. Would it be better if we drove on the right too? or maybe everyone else moved over to the left? Probably so in theory, but does it make sense to convert?? no probably not, just like the ribbon.

Automatic cars are easier to drive than manual right? not if you’re used to a manual they aren’t (unless that’s just me (kangarooing down the road, unclear of what to do with my spare foot)).

To be frank I find Microsofts willingness to throw away my investment in learning their product quite alarming, especially as it is becoming a bit of a trend – anyone for classic VB?

One final thing; I think ‘Office’ is ruining Excel. Most people I meet are heavy users of only one (or maybe 2) office products, this senseless conformism is diluting the power of the individual applications. I’d love to see Excel (and maybe Access) broken free from the rest of office (except for these 2 everything else is a glorified typewriter anyway). Instead of the current 7 (seven!) 2007 versions they could have 2: Office WP – for word processing (word, powerpoint, outlook and all that other new stuff) and Office IW for information workers (Excel and Access). what do you reckon?

Don’t get me wrong, I think there are some great new features in Excel, for all types of user (maybe not much for developers). For me though the pros of the new features are outweighed by the cons of the ribbon interface. Whats incredible is most people seem to be going through the same process: good=new features, bad=ribbon. I havent seen anyone I respect put the ribbon in the good category [Edit: but I havent actively searched for positive comment either] , its just for some the pros outweigh the downside of the ribbon. I could have a skewed view of course [Edit: There are after all lots of places I do not participate].

I suppose I should be looking at Office 2007 as a real opportunity, unfortunately I’m a bit too cynical for that, luckily I think my clients are too.
What about you?


36 Responses to “Office 2007 and Excel 2007”

  1. Ken Puls Says:

    Hi Simon,

    I’d be careful with the respect statement. I think that’s a bit too blanket of a statement, as well as doubt the truth of it. ;)

    With regards to the Ribbon, I’m a bit tied on the matter. It’s sexy for a new user, or a non power user. It’s awkward for those of us who have made years of investment into using the app. The thing is, the power users are heavily outnumbered by both new and non power users.

    I went on a jaunt through powerpoint the other day, never having used it much. I found that the Ribbon did make it quite accesible, so maybe there is something there. I also think that for new users of Excel, it will make it much easier to learn the program than what it took me. Maybe not to power user stage, but at least to get something useful from it.

    My biggest complaint originally was that I couldnt’ find things. Then came customization concerns, which are startint to relent for me a bit too now. (I still wish there was a GetContent callback for a tab though.) The more I use it, the more I get comfortable wtih it.

    One thing I will say, though, is that it adds an extra level of clicks, and that this is a BIG pet peeve of mine. I even wrote my templates add-in to avoid two clicks for crying out loud. Now instead of having one click on a toolbar, I have to change the tab first, then get my control. (At a minimum). At least one click added in the majority of cases. This is a big problem, for certain.

    Another issue I’m not happy about is the amount of screen real estate it takes up. I use a 1280*1024 reslution on a 17″ LCD at work, and can fit a whole bunch of toolbars in my 2003 instance. With my zoom set at 75%, I get a lot of screen real estate. The Ribbon, as I remember it, felt like it took up a lot more room for way less commands.

    Overall, I’m on the fence. It’s very Rich, which is nice, but I value performance over beauty. I can very much see why MS did it though, as I believe that it will benefit the majority of the apps CASUAL users.

    On the Office packaging… I don’t know. I use Excel, Word, Access and Visio (in that order, although I wish Access & Word were swtitched.) I’d far rather have the entire suite than start cutting products at all.

  2. Bob Phillips Says:

    I have to disagree with almost everything Ken says, and agree with almost everything Simon says (yes Simon, I hate myself for it ).

    To me, the ribbon is a totally unnecessary addition that has been imposed upon Excel by the Office developers. They came up with a ‘good idea’, and had the clout to enforce it. Like Simon says, the only two development platforms in Office are Excel and Access, so maye they should break free. What has been achieved with the ribbon, could have just as easily been achieved with a more re-designed, preetified, standardised interface, without changing the basic structure and usage.

    It seems that MS are heel-bent on telling people how to work, managed code, look and feel, and everything. To me, I fear this is the big mistake, and could/will b etheir downfall.

    Like Ken, I use 2007 a lot, and am getting used to it. At times I think I like it, but do I really? Do I like three clicks instead of two, do I like stiil searching for options (even after a year of use), do I like what they have done to my add-ins? Overall I think the answer is no. As soon as I have something serious to do, I revert to 2003.

    I think that Excel 2007 has many good enhancements, file formats, colours, CF, more columns, and so on, but so much bad. Don’t get me started on pivot tables, still missing the boat, 1M rows, pffft, the Name Manager (they even had a template of how it could be done yets still messed it), no improvement in Data Validation, and so.

    I also don’t think the question is whether ribbons are better than toolbars or menus in any form of that question. It should have been, what is Excel used for, what should it be used for, what do we need to do to get it there, and what are the major issues/holes with the existing features.

    As to whether 2007 will be successful, I don’t see that it can fail. All OEM versions will be 2007 so that guarantees sales. And it looks pretty, so people with the cash and no great need will jump in. The crunch will come when the big corporates make their decision, will the cost of upgrading be too great, can they afford not to? After all, there is no going back really. Office 14 is going to be 12++, it ain;t going to be Super 2003.

    I feel they have missed the boat as far as really taking Excel forward. With this much efforst and investment, I miss what could have been.

  3. Simon Says:

    I’m not sure what your first comment means, but if you think I’ve written something that is not true feel free to drop me an email to discuss.

    I can imagine you are right about the ribbon being easier for beginners, but why did they not make it optional?

    The question is, what will you do in 2009 when they totally change the interface again and devalue the effort you are putting in now learning 2007?

    As to screen space I think the ribbon offered 1 click access to about 40 commands, most of which I dont use. My 2003 set up uses less space to give me 1 click access to over 90 comands that I do use.

    Bob, yes I know what you mean about all this agreement -wheres the fun in that?
    I’ll try harder to come up with something we can disagree about
    I actually found 2007 too frustrating to use, so I don’t really have much experience. The only thing I did was totally get rid of the ribbon, which made me feel better, but made working harder.
    Good point about were the focus should have been, especially ‘what should it be used for’.

  4. Ross Says:

    “Now instead of having one click on a toolbar, I have to change the tab first, then get my control. (At a minimum).”

    Yep that is the massive problem, the new UI is so slow and clunky.

    “The only thing I did was totally get rid of the ribbon, which made me feel better, but made working harder.”

    This is good to hear, because if i start to use 07, i was thinking about removing the ribbon and sticking some menus on the window, then maybe using that shortcut bar thing as a normal toolbar?

    I agree on the 7 versions of office, and IW, and WP, if word had the animation of PPT, then there would be zero need for PPT. – But i think M$ are trying to move towards selling SW as a service?

    (I really really f#@ki~g hate that ribbon!)

  5. Dennis Wallentin Says:

    Hi guys,

    The Ribbon UI is here to stay. We can agree or disagree but not change it.

    Working with Ribbon UI and Ribbon X with VBA/VB/VSTO/VB.NET is easy once we learned the basic. Yes, there exist a lot if limitations with the 1.0 version and I hope we will see improvements being made in the next version.

    All in all, there exist only one direction to go and it’s forward.

    Kind regards,

  6. Simon Says:

    Ross – yep that pretty much sums it up.
    I absolutely do not believe the ribbon UI is here to stay, who’s to say there will not be a whole new UI ‘paradigm’ in the next office? and the next and the next?

    I’d like to see something along the lines of the Nintendo WII for some extreme Excel. Which reminds me of an idea of a competition: extreme excel?

    My point is not about the ribbon, its about needlessly breaking backwards compatibility. Joel covers it best here:

    As a professional developer I would not do that to my clients, and I feel I have a duty to inform MS of my negative view of this approach, and warn them of the consequences as I see them. They of course are totally free to ignore me, and to their credit they have not. We have agreed to disagree, which I think is totally reasonable.

    I hope everyone else has used the feedback opportunities they have had to give frank, honest and constructive feedback. One of my favourite things about Microsoft is that they do listen, and they appreciate feedback, without committing to blindly do what you ask. That is an awful lot better than many other companies I deal with.

    I’m sure the ribbon is easy to work with, but Open Office has a bigger market share than Office 2007 currently, so maybe that is a better investment of effort?

    If the next version of visual studio only has a ribbon interface, I’ll take the ribbon more seriously.

    so in summary there are 2 issues
    1. the ribbon as an interface
    2. providing no compatibility for users of existing versions.

    Personally number 2 is my biggest worry, and this is a new twist. 95-97 was the last big change and the upgrade path was pretty good overall. I’m not sure that same commitment to compatibility is still there.

    If VBA is deprecated in Office 14 in favour of .net (not removed, just relegated a little), the issues we (VBA devs) may face could be more fundamental than a couple of extra clicks here and there, thats my real worry.

  7. Dick Kusleika Says:

    “…who’s to say there will not be a whole new UI ‘paradigm’…”

    Haven’t we had the menu and toolbar paradigm for more than 20 years? That’s not a guarantee of anything, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I believe this UI will be around for a while. Also note that the file format hasn’t changed in 10 years. Meanwhile Access changes their file format every release. Of all the complaints I have about the Excel team, compatibility issues isn’t one of them.

  8. Sam Says:


    “And really my only issue is the ribbon, or rather Microsofts deliberate (and unnecessary) decision not to provide a compatibility mode”

    Here is the plan of action for the Ribbon

    a) Hope for poor sales of Office 12….This will result in a “Classic UI” option by SP2

    b) Till then hope for a solution to Create custom taskpanes from the Gurus

    c) Heavily customise your right click…..Its the only “Toolbar” that can be customised in 2007

    d)”Buy” the Custom UI builder….from Pschmid,Dennis and Ken


  9. Sam Says:

    e) forgot..You can also use the XML files from Ron’s site.


  10. Dennis Wallentin Says:


    In view of the fact that Office is MSFT #1 Cash Cow I’m convinced that the Ribbon UI will be around for a while. I can see the point with what You’re saying but I have decided to take a practical stand and just accept the way things are.

    What I would like to see in the future is that we, with VSTO, can manipulate the Ribbon UI with real power of Ribbon APIs.

    Kind regards,

  11. Marcus Says:

    “In the UK we drive on the left”
    That’s actually a good example. People’s habits can become so ingrained that having to alter them can be arduous in the extreme. I still press F5 for Go to. F2 to edit works in almost any Windows app not just spreadsheets. But if they changed it tomorrow – afar! All those ‘habits’ which speed up my productivity would be lost. There are many things that are technically obsolete but retained due to their ubiquitous familiarity – QWERTY keyboards comes to mind.

    “If VBA is deprecated in Office 14”
    I would find that an astounding blunder on behalf of Microsoft. Many companies have made enormous investments in solutions using MSO and VBA. If MS ever wanted to provide corporates with the incentive to look at alternatives, retiring VBA would be it.

  12. Simon Says:

    Dick I don’t have any complaints about the Excel team at all, my issue is with the broader Office team, and the UI incompatibility, which I think is probably not as important as file incompatibilies, but still important. You are right though we’ve had it easier in Excel than the Access folks.

    Sam I’m hoping for classic by SP1. If not I’ll have to do something when I get my first 2007 client (2009 probably).

    Dennis, I think your approach is totally valid, and proably the way we should all go. I re did my MCSD from VB5/6 to C# in 2003/4 ready for the .net revolution. I’m still waiting.

    Marcus I think I prefer your QWERTY example than my driving one, wish I’d thought of it! (I’ve got a Dvorak layout printed out, but never bothered remapping my keys to try it out)
    I’m sure MS won’t retire VBA (although I didn’t foresee the abrupt end of the current UI (a bit of a blunder in my opinion)), but I can imagine new features and properties that are exposed to .net but not VBA (task panes I think?). I can’t see us getting any editor enhancements (VS 2005 has loads of features that would be brilliant in VBA, but I don’t think the VBAIDE will progress from VB98, where it is now). I think the mouse wheel works in 2007, that will probably be the last ‘enhancement’.

  13. Bob Phillips Says:

    I agree with Dennis, the ribbon is here to stay. Not forever, it will evolve into something else, but don’t expect it to be the old menus and toolbars. They are gone, accept, and lobby for making the ribbon more usable.

    I’ll have a bet with you Simon, no classic by SP1, not even SP2. I just can’t see MS backing down after all of this investment, especially when SP1 will not be able to make any realistic analysis of takeup, user satisfaction, etc. Don’t forget the ribbon evolved out of the gizillions of bytes of user-click feedback received by MS, any analysis will be made upon the same sort of data. This ignores all of those people who don’t participate in these programmes, people like you and I and other ‘power’ users who probably feel that they don’t want MS knowing everything that they do.

    Excel 2007 is nice, let’s work to make it useful.

  14. Roger Says:

    Add my name to the list of XL users that hate the new XL experience. It takes too many clicks to get work done compared to the older versions and I can’t easily customize the UI. Also, my experience with non-power users, which make up about 95% of the work force, they will not like the new UI either. When I watch them search through the file menu for a command and point out that they can use something like the PrintPreview icon, I just get a blank stare and they go right back to using the FileMenu way. They hate change and they don’t want to learn anything new. They don’t want to produce anything nicer looking, they only want to get in, make a rough looking spreadsheet and get out. Their bosses are the same way. They only use XL because they have to use something. In fact, a few people that I work with use XL only to write short memos, because they find it easy to use spell check. However, one group of people that might get a lot of use are the ones that currently don’t use a PC, like my kids. Not knowing of the current or old ways of using Office, they might love the new UI, but it’s the long time competent users of Office and XL in particular that will made to dumb down for the benefit of the ones that only use XL to make a birthday list.

  15. killerthewhale Says:

    The two biggest kicks I get from my work are i) solving my clients’ business problems and ii) learning new things. It follows (well, not logically, but you know what I mean) that my two greatest frustrations are i) my clients misunderstanding their own business and trying to get me to fix the wrong/nonexistent problems and ii) having to learn how to do the same thing multiple times for no good reason. The new Office UI is a classic case of ii, obviously. If the ribbon made any kind of ergonomic sense then I would welcome it, but it doesn’t. It solves a problem that never existed.

    Dennis is correct that “All in all, there exist only one direction to go”, but it does not necessarily follow that “it’s forward”. It’s just “the way that Microsoft is going”.

  16. Simon Says:

    Bob – I bet you a tenner there are multiple QATs in SP1 (at a minimum) – you can pay me in Buds at the Excel user conf this summer! (you choose the drink if you win, if SP1 is not out by then I’ll pay up (side bet on release date?))
    Roger – thanks for chipping in, I’d start a petition but it didn’t do much good for classic VB did it?
    killerthewhale – good point on the direction, I too enjoy learning useful things, which doesn’t include the ribbon.

    So I’m not seeing much love for the ribbon – does anyone out there like it? or like the fact there is no 2003 UI option? (and would you own up if you did – bearing in mind the general view seems to be the ribbon is for beginners only?)

  17. Ken Puls Says:

    “d)”Buy” the Custom UI builder….from Pschmid,Dennis and Ken”

    Just a quick clarification here… Dennis and I moderate at Patrick’s forum. Patrick built the Custom UI builder. :)

    Simon, I’d be surprised to see SP1 by summer. Nothing to base that on but my gut though.

  18. Simon Says:

    I made some minor edits to the post based on Kens suggestion, to point out that there could be much positive comment at places I do not participate. That was maybe not clear enough previously.

    Ken so you’re saying the tenner is as good as Bobs? (If he takes the bet)
    Double or quits on SP1 features anyone?
    You are probably right Ken I truly believed there would be a classic mode in the RTM – I was very wrong there.

  19. Bob Phillips Says:


    The bet is on ( I fail to understand how you can drink that dishwater, so me not buying you any is actually a public service).

    I actually think I like the ribbn, what I don’t like is MS trying to control how I work, and not letting me go and tear the whole house down if that should be my wont. I don’t think it is the old UI I want, just more customability on the ribbon. Let me build ribbon items easily, let me add to the ribbon, remove from it, activate a ribbon tab on open, identify what riboon item was invoked, etc., etc.

    OT – shouldn’t we be using real names on this blog?

  20. Harlan Grove Says:

    There’s no way to turn off the ribbon. That’s what irks. In earlier versions it’s possible to turn off all toolbars including the worksheet menu. Given the number of custom applications using Excel as a back-end, Excel 2007 is unusable as a replacement.

    Eliminating the flexibility to place toolbars on any edge of the application window or floating within it wasn’t an obvious step forward in ease-of-use.

    As for Office dumming down Excel and Access, that’s been going on for a long time (wasn’t Excel 5 the first bundled version?). This is just the latest step in the process. Microsoft has had little or no interest in making Excel a better spreadsheet for more than 10 years. No competition. Pity.

  21. Simon Says:

    Bob I am using my real name – are you not the real Bob Phillips?
    You are right, real names would be nice, but personally I don’t really mind as long as people are civil (not like that bloke you linked to the other day!)
    Hi Harlan, yes I think you are right, wasn’t it Excel 5, Access 2 and Word 4.3 or something, then next time they had all skipped to 95?
    We really don’t like having our control taken away do we?
    Have you been keeping up with Open Office? They have partial VBA now, which could liven things up a little. I Corel had any sense they would donate the quattro pro source (if OO would have it of course!)

  22. Harlan Grove Says:

    Yes, I keep up with OpenOffice (and gnumeric, and I still use Lotus 123 too). StarOffice had StarBasic a few versions ago, and I forget if it was ever truly gone.

    As for QP, it used to be better. The versions that support QPW files have been too unstable for me to take seriously. And PerfectScript is horrible.

  23. Tim McElligott Says:

    Simon, I don’t think that nail will ever come out of the wall…you hit it so squarely on the head.

    “What they should have asked (IMO) is : is the ribbon better than menus and toolbars for all those people who have been using menus and toolbars for years, and have menus and toolbars in almost every one of the other applications they use? probably not”

    One of the truest statements I have ever read on the internet!

  24. Randy Says:

    The first spreadsheet program I used at work was visicalc, when Lotus 123 arrived we (large aerospace company) switched immediately (the first day we could get our hands on a copy). Years later, switching to Excel was painful because Lotus was a more powerful program (for example unlike cumbersome Excel the lotus file combine feature was super for quickly pulling department budgets together into one spreadsheet–what could be done in seconds now took an hour or more) — slowing data entry down from the old Lotus (extremely fast) DOS “slash” commands /fc (example: for file combine) to the highly cumbersome (but illiterate-friendly) picture pointing forced on us by Bill Gates and his made-for-apple Excel program. Maybe I haven’t given it enough of a chance but this newest version of excel (2007) seems to be another case of Bill Gates finding a bunch of people who don’t use spreadsheets 6-8 hours a day to design big (and cumbersome) changes in a program that will once again force “power users” another step along his apparent strategy of making the prettiest looking but most puny, jalopy of a spreadsheet program possible. Thanks again Bill — all the wasted time it takes to use your junky software helps keep the unemployment rates low

  25. Jon Peltier Says:

    This follow-up says it all:

    “Comment on Office 2007 and Excel 2007 by top rated hair care products”

    Smurph deleted the post, but not before it graced the RSS airwaves.

  26. Randy Says:

    the purpose of computers to most of the business communities is as a tool….the tens of hours per person lost to training and the hundreds of hours lost productivity due to loss of procedures, lack of comfort (expert..where you only think about your problem, not how to use the tool) the frustration it brings to the mature (ones who get the work done) employees, animosity between generations, etc. can never be made up in the miniscule efficiency gains in teaching young new employees, let alone the fact it actually seems slower with more keystrokes.

    Microsoft upgrades are the single biggest threat to productivity in the engineering field today. Does it have to be so?

  27. Bob Phillips Says:

    Thanks for resurrecting this thread Randy, I see Simon owes me £10 worth of beer. See you in April Simon.

    BTW, a bit ironic that someone (Dick?) mentioned that Excel users have never had to worry about compatibility issues. We do now!

  28. Simon Says:

    Didn’t I pay up at the Nov 07 conf?

    I have certainly said that we have had an easy ride compatibility-wise certainly compared to the Access folks. So lucky we didn’t have a bet on that too!

  29. Jason Says:


    I’m glad I’m not the only one out here who dislikes (well, more like detests) the new GUI on excel. I use excel (and access) for a very large part of my job and have done so for several years. Recently I have had 2007 imposed on me by my managers who are now supplying me with 2007 files .

    It just so happens that I have had a massive data job to complete. I would have found this nearly impossible (i.e. all that time spent searching for tools instead of thinking about what I wanted to do with the data) had my IT manager not left 2003 on my machine. The new GUI is an insult to long time users and I feel aggrieved that m$ haven’t included a classic interface option.

    I’ve had no support on this issue from my managers on this, despite having explained to them that I don’t have time to re-learn a new interface to find tools/functions that I am highly competent at using (in fact I’ve been given an ‘excel for dummies’ book….truly an even bigger insult!). I am resigned to the fact that I’ve got to part with my own cash to buy some software to make 2007 look like 2003.

    Any software suggestions?


  30. Bob Phillips Says:


    I have come across an interesting (free!) open-source effort called UBitMenu

    I haven’t tried it yet, I would be interested in your view.

  31. Jason Says:

    Thanks for the link Bob.

    I’ll try it out over the weekend.

  32. Warren Keller Says:

    Only one comment … time for a competitor to step in. Pepsi anyone?

  33. Warren Keller Says:

    At first, I found myself going on hearsay and internally adopting a bit of a mad-on regarding the new and “improved” 2007 products without any direct experience and driven by a bit of fear. Sooo, I decided to suspend judgment and go with the flow because surely, I should be able to adopt quickly and besides, would microsoft really get it so wrong?
    It’s now been almost 3 months since we were forced to convert at work and, I now have my answer. It is a definitive YES.
    I like the expanded capabilities such as multi-level conditional format (as opposed being limited to only 3 levels) and all the other enhancements BUT, the logical hierarchy is lost and so, my ability to retain this “new and improved” system continues to be a chore and my ability to focus on being creative (an getting my job done in a timely fashion) is severely compromised. I think it is fair to say that I am an extremely dissatisfied and disappointed user (yes, angry might be an appropriate phrase) and quite frankly, I am hoping that someone from “Pepsi” will come up with a competing product so I can stop being forced to drink the “new coke” (for those who remember the new-coke fiasco, you will understand the analogy). My once long loyalty, admiration, and defense of Microsoft’s product is no longer intact.

  34. Warren Keller Says:

    Yes, one other personal story that substantiates that something is really really wrong in paradise is the following:

    My background is electrical engineering so I am not one who has trouble assimilating new ideas and abstract concepts but I am very familiar with “good design principals” and like most others on this blog, excel has also been an important tool in the course of my day-to-day work. But I digress a bit. The real story is this. Back around 1999, I was between jobs and was asked to help a friend, who was a VP of a medical therapy venture firm, with creating an excel record of all of their files and medical trial information in preparation for achieving ISO and European Medical certification. I said “yes” and started work right away. The fact was that I knew next to nothing about excel and had to ask the front receptionist to walk me through the basics. So, we sat down together for about 15 minutes and at the end of it, I started my task without having to second guess the menus and I was able to focus on developing and execution of my task. Since then, I have consider myself a moderate, if not power user, of excel making extensive use of built-in functions, writing specialized applications in VB etc …. all until being forced to use 2007. My efficiency is crippled, the natural hierarchy of the menus is completely disassembled and even after 3 months of use, I remain unable to utilize the “new and improved” version. Thank you very much microsoft for convincing me to look somewhere else for a company that actually understands how to build on a good thing rather than what you have done with 2007.

  35. Driving change « Smurf on Spreadsheets Says:

    […] Driving change By Simon Ages ago I likened some Office 2007 decisions to the idea that we in the uk changed the side of the … […]

  36. Dave Says:

    The ribbon simply SUCKS ASS

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